Grandmaster Praggnanandhaa: Childhood, Money, Failure, Samay Raina & PM Modi | FO392 Raj Shamani

文章要点：

• The journey of a chess prodigy from his first exposure at three years old to becoming a Grandmaster.
• Insights on handling pressure and the sacrifices made in pursuit of excellence.
• Contributions of influential figures like Sameyaina and Sagar to the chess community.
• Money in chess and evolving opportunities for players beyond traditional competitions.
• The mental game: reflections on mindset, confidence, and resilience, especially in high-stakes matches.

When were the first time you saw chess? I was around three and I played my first state championship by the age of five and at the age of 12 we became GN. Yes. And I think I was too young to handle these kind of like title pressure things.

I've always wondered why do you put Bbuti here? This is basically the ash. We come from the ash and we go back to it. There is nothing to be arrogant. You must be surrounded with just coaches, competitors. You don't have friends for anything else.

When you're trying to do something, something different then yeah, you have to sacrifice. You have a lot of chess friends who made you insecure? Oh, he's better than me. Mostly from my generation.

Gukesh does well Archind as well or noted back. I feel like I can do it as well. I tried to put pressure on me.

What do you think is contribution of Samem Rainana and Sagar in the world of chess? Same brought in new audiences to the game. Saga Chess based India covers every tournament as possible.

I think that was good things happened to chess.

Is there money in chess? Yes, there is. I think more money than it used to be.

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From hot lunch boxes to last minute cakes. Porter help people like you and me get things delivered safely across the city. And most importantly, it's built for fast pickups and allocations across the city. Because speed matters and no one understands speed better than today's guest are Prageyanda, the youngest international master at the age of 10, a grandmaster at the age of 12 and someone who's already beaten world champions.

In this episode, we spoke to him about how he handled the pressure of representing India on the global stage at such a young age. The mindset shift he had while competing internationally, what chess has taught him and how he stays focused even during long high stake matches.

Watch this episode till the end and tell me in the comments what you learned from this.

You have a lot of chess friends and those chess friends are your competitors as well. Few of them, yes.

Do other chess players make you insecure? No, not right now. But I guess in the past it.

Who made you insecure in the past? I mean just the players from my generation. Whenever they were doing it was putting some pressure on.

I mean I was putting self pressure as I was speaking earlier and. But I started seeing them as be inspiration and it was. I mean now I. Whenever they do well, I. I get this extra, extra motivation. Like I want to push myself.

It doesn't come as a pressure but as. As an inspiration and I want to do well as well.

But when was the last time you felt insecure? I don't remember, honestly. But you said that you were you clearly when I was scared you would see other player and who would you think that that person made me a little oh, he's better than me or she's better than me.

Mostly from my generation. Like when let's say u Gukesh does well or arind as well or noed back u when they do well, I feel like I can do it as well. So I, I tried to put pressure on me which, which is not a good thing. I mean getting inspired from them is a different thing.

And for example, like nowadays, as I said when I was fin, I. I'm better at it because last year I didn't have a great year while Gukesh won world championship Arjun crossed my 800 and all these things just inspired me so much.

Like I was seeing their games so closely, trying to understand and yeah, it inspired me and I think that's one of the reasons, um, I feel that extra energy I have when I play games nowadays that, you know, I mean that inspiration that comes from them now it's not fear, it's just inspiration.

Yes. You don't get scared by anyone. No. Any player? No.

I think when you are, I mean when you just want to give your best and not worry about the result, I don't think there is anything to be. Worry about.

Yeah, worry about. You know, I was watching this one reel from Prakar's podcast where Vishihiir says that you saw that. Yeah, yeah. Watch.

Yeah. He chose you over all the others. He said Prague. Like currently I would choose Prague.

How do you feel when someone of his caliber chooses you over Arjunan Gush and everyone else? Yeah, as I said, these things would have, you know, made impressions on me earlier. Nowadays I'm just. Yeah, it is what it is.

Yeah. What were you thinking when you beat Magnus Carlsen for the first time?

I wasn't Thinking anything. I was just playing and I got my chance out of nowhere and. And I mean everything happened in like few minutes. It was rapid games so everything happened in few minutes. Then I realized I was him I was quite happy.

And it was an online game as that time my parents were asleep. It was like 2am in the morning and I. And I went and my dad up I said I want.

But then he went back to sleep because he had to go to the office tomorrow. He didn't care at all.

Yeah. Is that good? And went back to.

What were you feeling? I was just. I was just excited. Like I, I wasn't expecting it. And then suddenly, I mean the game was also going in a trend that he was putting pressure on me and then suddenly I got my chance.

I had to play some accurate moves which I did and I won. So I was just very happy. And then I also didn't expect so much reaction from outside after that. So there was also I think a good thing for the game. It brought more attention.

But then. Do you read the game? Do you read the person? Do you read fears psychology? What. What helped you win?

I was more excited about the fact that I just bet Magnus than the actual game.

Okay. Which is. I mean which is not what I feel. But I didn't. I didn't think the game was particularly great or anything like that but did replay that game?

Yeah, yeah I did. I did analyze. I realized I didn't. I didn't really play well. But it. It was like fifth game of the day or something and we were already, we were already tired and it was h. Obvious that we were not, not playing our best. But, but I won.

And I think it was, it was important for me back then. It gave me a lot of confidence and I, I realized that the top players are not invisible. Like they. You can beat them and until you actually get that first win you always feel like they are. They're just in a different world. But once you bat them.

Yeah, you can like know that. Yeah, it's possible.

And usually when you play one on one in real life, is it the body language that you read? Is it the psychology of a person? Because everybody knows every move and they are playing at the top of the game. What gives one player edge over another?

Yeah, you can get a new position early on in the game that's possible that you're totally out of book and um, and you're playing and so it's not like every time you get a familiar position and coming to this psychology yes. You can actually understand if someone is comfortable or not with their position.

And that does give you some info. If your opponent is not feeling comfortable and you can feel that, then it gives you some confidence. You can, you know that you can push, push hard in this game.

And also in terms of chess, also you can feel it like if the momentum is going on your side or not. You can feel that. Okay.

And how do you analyze this body language where you get a sense that they're not happy with their opening? What are the subtle cues?

Some players are really expressive. So those you can. Anyone can understand. Some players you can are.

Are not expressive. Like for example, Arjun I think is one of the top players who's not at all expressive.

You just. I mean he gives the same reaction if he wins or loses. And it's different for players.

And I think once you know the person well, you can actually understand they'll. I mean they will show something or the other.

But I was watching this one video of Carlson vs. Bill Gates. Have you seen that video?

Yeah. Where he beats Bill Gates in like 20 seconds or something like that?

Yeah. It's like in six months or something.

Yeah. So can you do that with.

I can. With me like six moves, seven moves, two moves.

What would it be? It's possible I can try to trick you. I think that s. That's what Magnus did.

That game. It's just playing for tricks.

Okay. And you, you're well versed with all of the tricks or do you train yourself to play with tricks?

It's not something that we will use at the top.

Okay. It just something that we can come up with during the game.

Okay. And that's something you would use to play around like fool around with noobs like me.

Yeah, we can. It's possible.

What makes Carlson great is I think he has this intuition in every position which. Which is just amazing. Like he usually when you actually see his game, even in shorter form months, he. He plays top three choices of the computer every single time.

And that intuition is something that he developed over period of time. He is one of the players who knows a lot of classics from the past. He has read a lot. And I think that's one thing is that helps him.

And also he's mentally really strong. You can never see him like collapse in a tournament completely.

Um, you can. I mean even when you actually. When he actually makes a mistake, when he's lost his is there fighting, fighting every. Every chance he's getting.

And um. And he pushes till then like he. He tries every resource that's possible. He exhausts them and.

And I think that's one of the reasons he's at the top and when he was coming up he was playing these end games which people in earlier days thought thought it was completely fine. They will just make draws because of mutual respect for the players.

They think it's okay, no one is going to win this. Let's make an early draw. But Magnus started playing all those positions. He started grinding and then started winning also.

So um, he's just universally strong and he's mentally also strong which, which is really.

What do you think you have which he doesn't?

Yeah, it's an interesting question. I've never thought about this actually if I have to speak about the style, he is more of an intuitive player as I said is his intuition is so good.

While I. Even though my intuition suggests a move I usually try to go in details and it's possible that I can catch him there because he hasn't gone into the details.

Sometimes intuition can also be wrong and I can catch him and our games are always exciting which so I always look forward playing him.

Do you cry after the game? Have you ever cried?

Yes. After the game you've lost?

Yeah. Yeah.

When did it happen last time?

Last time I was, I was playing in u playing in Prague Masters this year and before the last round I was training my alpha p and I was if I win then I could catch the leader and I tried to play a fighting opening which backfired completely and I lost without a fight.

And that was. Yeah, that was bothering me so much that I lost without a fight and I did cry a bit. But I. I am m usually good at recovering quickly.

Okay. And because we were talking about drama and emotions. Right.

What do you think is contribution of Sameyinaa and Sagar in the world of chess? Do you like them?

Yeah, I think they did contribute a lot.

Um Saga Chess basede India covers every tournament as possible.

Somey brought in new audiences to the game especially during the lockdown time when there were nothing much to do.

And I think that was one of so called good things happened to chess in a way because people started playing chess online and I think around the time Queen'canbit also got released.

So all these things combined I think started this chess boom.

And also a lot of. A lot of like people like Sai streaming and bringing in new audience was definitely good, good for the game. Have you met him?

No, I think I've met him but we haven't really spoken so much.

Okay. And then what do you think that should more people do something like what Sa is doing?

There's an impact on the game of chess because of him.

Yes. But I think that's one of the reasons is because of those times when. When we had nothing to do when everything was online.

Now since chess is back to being played on the board and travel so much, I think it's difficult to drawience.

Yeah. Do so much.

But still the saga is covering every tournament is best and.

And I think that's still bringing in audiences.

Got it.

Okay. And I had a question on failure from you.

How do you reset yourself quickly? Because you said you're pretty good at recovering.

So when you fail, what's your process to recover?

I think this again comes back to the thing that I focus more on, on the.

On the game. Even the example I gave. I tried to fight for the first place and it just backfired on that day.

I mean, it could have gone my way also. It's.

It's possible. And I was also playing a strong player and in backfire, of course, I was upset for a few minutes, but then I did what I should have done.

I mean, in hindsight also I should. I should fight. Try to fight for the first place. And I did my best and it didn't work out that day. So it's fine.

Let's go to the next tournament.

And when you're at the game.

Okay.

And you could sense that, oh, this person made a mistake and you know, now for him it's a downhill battle.

Right. You can sense that that person is almost going to lose. What does losing smell like in that moment?

Like, can you smell fear? Can you smell anger? Can you smell regret? Can you smell disappointment?

What does it smell like?

Differs from player to player, majority of them. Top players.

Disappointment mostly.

Regret that also.

Yeah. I mean, top player can realize where. Where things actually started going out of control.

And even during the game, when you realize it's. It's absolutely gone, you still.

You start thinking about that moment where u. Where I could have improved and so on.

Do you know there are a lot of lessons which can be learned from your life or the way you operate the mindset that you have, like just blinders on focus.

It's one game at a time. And then I'm ambitious. I'm gonna go for the big thing. I'm not going toa let anything affect me.

It's just incredible. Right. It's a great mindset that you'built at a very young age.

What would you teach every Indian who's watching this from the world of chess that we should follow that as a principle in our life.

I believe that, you know, we should always try to go for the maximum but when you don't get it, you shouldn't worry too much about it.

You get back and start, start trying again. Comes essentially comes back to the saying that you just trust the process and not worry too much about the result because not everything is in your hands.

And for example, let's say you are doing a great podcast you'in this zone. But if I'm not speaking well then it, it is not going to be a good forecast.

So it's not, I mean not everything in your is in your ants and I think same with any field, any anywhere.

Um, there are always things that are out of your control. So you just try to do, do what you can, give your best in that.

And so how do you prepare for world-level matches?

I try to do the same thing I will do for a normal game also for the important one.

And I don't think it should differ because if it differs then it means that you're seeing it as an important one.

That means you are re-putting pressure on yourself which is which is not necessary but it's there.

Like you will pressure.

Yeah, yeah. You will feel. I'm not saying you have to feel. I think it's as a human you will feel.

But these things add on to those pressure. It's not required.

You just do your routine every day. And um, and especially these last round games are like crucial and there are always these pressure, pressure, uh, pressure moments and but you just have to follow the routine that you have followed throughout the tournament and just do the same.

And, and usually when you play the game, I mean you don't really feel too much pressure. You just played for the game.

Yeah. You just love the game and you're playing.

You know how have you heard these stories or superstitions of cricketers know.

So a lot of cricketers who are at the top of the game, there'certain level of superstitions which is just there.

It's just become so on a big day of game they'll follow the same routine.

So for example like one of the biggest cricketers in the world would always wear pad on the left leg first and then on the right leg right.

Yes this year have hearrd right.

Another one of the biggest cricketers always wear the same gloves with which gloves he probably must have hit hundreds and centuries with that. So he would wear the same glove because he had the superstition key.

Okay. Because of the gloves have did that.

There are a bunch of things like these.

Do you have any of that?

I have my routines, but u.

What routine?

Sometimes let's say I'm playing a tournament and I'm going in one direction and.

And I win. I just try to follow it.

I guess that's one of those superstitions you can say. But these things change. You play different tournaments, so it's not like a proper one.

Okay.

And bodily, do you feel any experience?

Like, how does pressure feel on your body before a big game?

Like what.

How does your body react?

Was I was listening to this one conversation by on Bolt, okay. Where he was saying that whenever there's a big game or there's a Olympics race going on, right, right before it, the body gets stiff.

His body gets like. It's in that zone that even if you try to arm twist him, you won't be able to because the whole body has gotten like stone cold.

And the moment the body listens to that clap or that pistol like that click, automatically just.

Body starts running like this. He doesn't have to do anything.

His brain doesn't have to do anything. It just bodily experience that he will feel that tuck and then he'll start running.

You know, that experience.

So before a big game or before a big race, the body will show that it's frozen. That's his way of feeling or dealing with pressure.

This is early days of same board.

How does it happen with you? Like, what does the body feel?

I think when you do something different because it's so important one, that's when you are saying to yourself that it's. It's a different but it is important.

How can you deny the fact that it's not important? No, it is important. We all know it.

But once you actually, I mean, show it physically, then it's uh, I think creates unnecessary pressure.

Like you can. There is obviously pressure, but uh, so do you tell your brain you're like, oh, that's another day. It's just another day. It's okay, go ahead, we'll go, we'll play, we'll win and we'll come back?

No, I agree it's a pressure game, but when you actually do things, you just have to do the routine because that's what actually got you there.

So true.

Do you visualize sometimes?

Yeah, before the game, you visualize this is what's going to happen. This is what happen. This is what I'll do.

If this happens, then I'll do this. And this is my victory moment.

Yeah, you can.

Okay. Victory moment is difficult but I.

Yeah I do sometimes think about thing about like how can the game brokeness like just, just the way I want um, how I want the game to be.

But is it part of your process visualization?

No, it's not something that I. It's something that happens or.

Okay, so it just happens. If you happen to think about the game, it's great. It's not a routine that you follow.

It's not something that I need to do.

Okay.

Interesting.

And I've always wondered why do you put Bbuti here?

This is basically the Ash. So we, we come from the Ash and we go back to it. So we are, we are basically.

I mean whatever we do is not. Not something like great like we just.

We will anyway go back to Ash.

So there is nothing to be, you know, nothing to be like arrogant or things like that.

So just. So that's one of the reasons.

There are I guess various reasons and something that I've.

Something that I've been doing it from ageage and I still keep doing it.

And the reason what you were told which you believe in is this is Ash. We were ashes, we're gonna again be ashes.

So there's nothing you should be arrogant about because you're insignificant.

Yeah. Just live and go back like don't be egoistic about it.

Yes.

Okay. You believe in them?

Yeah, I.

I mean that reason like I believe in it and I think it's true.

So it's.

I mean also like to me it makes sense and I. If it works for me then I'll take it.

Tell me about your childhood.

When were the first time you saw chess?

So the way I started chess is bit accidental.

My sister was the first one to play in our family and she picked it up chess because when she was around five she was watching a lot of television and lot of cartoons.

So my parents wanted her to spend her time more productively and they joined her in drawing in chess class.

Okay.

And there she picked it up chess and.

And the trainer early on realized that she has talent in it and.

And then she started playing chess and.

And used to practice at home and for me it was.

It was very interesting these pieces in the chessboard and I started.

I started to learn. My parents realized I had. I'GOT on front of this game and they got me chess board and I started playing.

This is how I started. I was around three and I don't think I can.

I can sit long to learn. So I used to go like half an hour to.

To a club nearby and just learn the roles, just play games.

And why would your parents put you in a chess class or like chess learning environment at the age of three?

What was going on in their mind? Have you ever asked them?

I'm not sure. I think it was because I was so interested in the game that they had.

Yeah, three, three and a half. I started learning the rules and I played my first state championship by the age of five.

Wow.

Yeah, that was quite early for chess player. Interesting.

But then was there something your parents noticed particularly about you or they were like, oh, because your sister plays Let us ask, like let us put you in that game as well.

I guess they saw how much interested I was and they, I mean they tried to have a train, not teach me the rules.

And.

Okay. I don't think it was some sort of plan to o. It was never a plan to.

Okay.

So was it a parent dream or your dream first? That's an interesting question.

I guess it was mine. It was yours.

What age you realize that, hey, I want to be and I want to play at the global level. I want to be in number one.

I'd probably say when my first success game, which was I finished second and under seven nationals.

Yeah, it was. I was six years old and, and I was one year younger than the players were playing.

It was seven under seven national cent finishing second. I qualified to the Asian and the world championship under 8, which is mean back then.

It's like a huge thing. You'going to, you're going abroad and to play a tournament. I was, I was quite excited and I really started believing that again at the of eight.

Yeah, around seven. That's incredible.

Did you share this dream at the age of eight with your parents?

Like, hey, I think we were all in the same page. There was no discussion.

We were all okay. We all knew like everybody knew this wasnn happen.

Yeah.

We were just. Yeah, we were focused on playing tournaments and whatever that was taking us to the top.

But am'I'm amazed at this point that at the age of eight parents decided that, okay, let's play.

We're going to support our kids. They want to compete professionally, they want to go on the world level.

We'll do that. We'll travel with them, we'll provide the infrastructure for them, we'll get the funds for them, we'll do everything, whatever they need.

Right. And we will not focus on the studies. We'll focus more on chess.

Like how is that possible?

How is.

Because what we hear is, especially in the South Indian family, it's studies are very important, right?

Like you need to study and you need to get a good marks there.

Yeah, I guess it's, it's their belief.

I'm still wondering how it, it all happened.

I guess it had to do with the fact that we were also showing results that things, we were achieving things early on and there were progress which also I guess assured them that it is going on the right track.

And, and I think there were never like a doubt that is it, is it the right way or not.

We were just doing it.

Yeah, we were just doing it and as I said, like I was having some good results which, which proved that we were on the right track.

But have they ever told you that, oh, you know, you need to study first, focus on that and then you'll figure this out?

No, there was never there.

Never.

Even when I give exams now nowadays they are like just, I mean, just do your best. If you get a pass mark enough, that's it.

Nobody cares about anything.

Also, I became an I am at the age of 10, which is U 4th grade or 5th grade, I'm not sure.

So it's. Early, early on. And you can always, let's say if I didn't do that, I can always shift back to the studies and get back on track.

So it's not since I achieved something special early on that I can, I think Iureded them.

I think that's, that's the thing.

And at the age of 12, we became GM.

Yes. At the age of 12.

Do you, do you like that feeling or you don't like thating that?

Oh, I was the second youngest at this point. It doesn't matter.

Okay.

And so when I was trying for this GM title, I became my English International Master, which was a record back then.

And from International Master to Grandmaster, I had two years of a cap and I think I could have become Grandmaster faster.

But the fact that I wanted to break this record of being the youngest Grandmaster actually like slowed me down and, and once I realized that I couldn't break it, I became a Grandmaster in like three months.

And I think I was too young to handle these kind of like title pressure things.

And I think that's one of the reasons.

But now when I look at it, it honestly doesn't matter if I became three, three months younger or three months apart.

Like, it doesn't matter because when the goal is like higher than these small things, I mean, don't really.

Of course it doesn't matter, but what do you think what was going on in your head which stopped you from doing that?

Because he said you could have become it faster.

Yeah, there were, I mean, there were people writing about me. There were like people coming to take pictures.

All this was new to me. I was. When I was just 10, 11 and. And these things I think affected me.

I. I guess it's.

There was some self pressure, like I was trying to push myself, which, um, which creates this unnecessary pressure.

Um, and also like reading articles about like whether I can break it or not.

All these are just u.

It bothered you?

Yeah, I wouldn't say it bothered. It probably put more pressure on me, which is not really necessary.

But do you get bothered by the pressure and what people write today?

No, not anymore. I realized from that experience that people will be writing about you and it's not.

I mean, you can't really control anything.

And I.

Yeah, I usually switch off outside noise just when I'm playing a tournament. I.

I don't look at social media or anything.

Just, just focusing on the game throughout. And then once I'm done, okay, then I can, I can relax.

But during the tournament, it'just about Che.

Okay.

I was saying I grew up in an environment, okay, where apart from my father and my uncle, I have seen nobody playing chess like around me.

There was. None of my friends played Che. Nobody.

I've never seen this phenomenon in my house.

There were two people playing, but never for.

I've never heard anyone around me in an environment that somebody wants to become a chess champion.

And it's to me, when I hear about you or the stories about you and the whole.

The phenomena which is coming up in the south, to me that's exciting.

Why do you think is that, like, why there are so many great players from the south and not from the north?

Yeah, so first of all, it's true, like I've heard so many people saying that I played chess 20 years back and now I'm able to play it again because of, you know, because of the interest growing right now.

And it's.

Yeah, it's great to see that.

And even my dad was playing when he was, when he was a child.

So yeah, CHSS was always there in, in every a home and people are getting more and more interested now because of, because of the interest growing.

Yeah.

But why do you think in south there are more chess players?

Like, although if you look at the top three, all of you guys are from the South?

Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons is it's because of an answerir.

I came from Chennai and there is.

There is already an existing system where there are tournaments happening regularly where there are a lot of trainers.

And that's why I think we have this, we have this starting advantage.

So to say that we, you know, we get the opportunities there.

But right now I think it's.

It's growing everywhere in India.

There are kids coming from all over the.

All over India.

And, and that's one of the reasons why India is growing because there's just so much competition within NASA.

And then when you go and play abroad, you're just so much stronger.

But do you think it has to do more with something else than just infrastructure?

Because look at.

I was trying to compare this.

Okay, we have lot of wrestlers from north India and we have a lot of chess players from south India.

And you don't have a lot of chess players from north or a lot of wrestlers from south.

Do you think it's some culturally something different is there or the focus of parents and families are around somewhere?

I'm not sure about that.

I mean, there are some strong players from the north also, but as you said, the ratio is not, not as much as from the south.

And it could be interesting because as I said, I think this starting advantage, for example, restless from the north, it's much easier for them because they have, I mean, they have people to look up to.

Like, it's much easier for them.

Uh, there are training tools and everything.

I think that's one of the reasons.

But also maybe, I mean, from the south, Chess is given more, more interest.

I think it comes back to the point that Anans are coming from the south.

I mean, played, played a role because you started idolizing that person and you started feeling like, oh, he's somewhere, someone around us.

And that's how the inspiration started.

Yes.

For me, the first time I saw an answer was a.

It's a nice story.

I, I studied in Veamal school and they have, they have interest in sports and there are about 12 or 13 grandmasters from the school.

Wow.

And they support chess and other sports very much so.

When I was, um, seven, Anan said I just, uh, won his world championship match against Gelfand and he was coming back to Chennai and our school had arranged an old bus of players just to see him arrive.

And I was one of the players.

Wow.

We went there and it was such an inspiring moment for, for both me and my sister.

And.

And within one month, we played in Asian championship.

I was playing under under eight championship, and I won it like, convincingly.

I think these are the moments that you, you get when you are, you know, around.

When you're around, um, around the champions.

And uh, and also the match in 2013 of Financer against Magnus.

I was there watching, watching the match and, and ironically, we were discussing this recently with, uh, with Arjun and Ksh that they were also there during that match and maybe that had to play some role that we were.

We were inspired.

Okay.

And then you spoke about your parents, that without them it was not possible.

They supported you a lot.

What do you think?

What did they sacrifice for you?

Yeah. So my mother traveled to me to every tournament, and since my sister is also playing a lot of tournaments, it's difficult for them to manage.

And.

And my dad, it takes care of everything that is apart from traveling.

Like, especially when we were growing up, we were not having so much idea about everything and we learned it in the process.

And.

And yeah, he manages everything.

And my mother travels to me into every tournament and they take care of everything that.

That I have to do.

Like my job is just to come.

Come to the board, just play Che and go back to training and come back.

This is all what I do.

And as I said, they just.

They just do everything for us and u.

And they are.

And also they never come to me and say the.

Say that you have to win this tournament or you have to do that, do that.

No, they just.

They just never put pressure on me in terms of chess.

Chess is, um.

Chess is my side and rest they take care of.

That's it.

Yeah, they don't let you think about anything at all?

No.

Right.

And then does it ever happen?

Like, you have a good game, you have a great day, and you win and you don't win, you lose the game.

And then you go back to your mother and be like, hey, I lost, or your mother would be right there.

Like every.

Everybody is s expecting that you'll win, and then you go with the losing face.

Do they ever show disappointment?

No, not really.

Never.

No matter when you lose, they'll never show disappointment.

No, they.

The first thing they say is like, it's okay, we'll see tomorrow.

I think that's the first thing I always get because they know that I.

I am there giving my best.

And they also understand it's sports and.

Yeah, so they understand everything.

And they just.

They never talk about chess.

And um.

And even when I'm traveling alone, if I'm talking to my mother on the phone.

The first thing she will ask is did you have a good sleep and did you get a good food?

And that's the thing they asked.

They never go about chess and u as I said they just, they just leave chest to me and try to make sure that I'm at my best.

They are not involved in the chess part of it.

Okay.

Have you read this book inner game of tennis?

I know.

Have you heard of it?

No.

No.

Okay, so there's.

So there's a book in our game of tennis and it talks about what goes on inside the tennis players mind when they're playing tennis and something like what you said it's just about that like when people play for winning the game they end up winning much more versus when they play for not to lose.

Like the moment they go in the court and be like hey I don't want to lose this game and that's what I'm going to play my best that is the day when they play their worse because they're just trying to not lose.

Like this is how brain works and the same player just different mindset, different experiment works out much better when they go to play with.

That's true from my experience as well.

When you're we I 'HAD these matches when I play and when you win the first game and you need a drawing the second one the way people play differ from the way they played in the first game.

I myself have done that because the second game you're you don't want to lose and I think that that really u you know, you don't give your best when you're doing that.

Yeah, you're trying to take some shortcut and things usually backfire in those cases.

Do you feel pressure that now you number four you need to become number one?

No, noious.

I mean I, I'm ambitious that I want to become number one but there is not self pressure U I will give my absolute best towards that and yeah and we'll see if if I can make it or not.

That's.

But uh.

What do you think you'll be able to make it?

I believe I can.

Bye. Bye.

I don't usually give myself this time periods.

I think that's where you start to put pressure on yourself.

For me I have these long term goals but I, I don't think about these things.

For me I.

I'm going to play a tournament next that that will be my focus and before a game next game is going to be my focus.

So I think that's how it works for me.

Doesn't matter by when you just know that it's going to happen.

Yeah, I just believe and I think it's important to Believe yourself to 100%.

100%. I believe in this too.

I am a big believer or self believe.

Yeah, that's a nice way to put it.

Yeah.

Like I think and I also believe that there's a.

So I study Michael Jordan a lot.

So Michael Jordan believes that everything in life happens twice.

Once inside your head and then reality.

So if inside you don't believe that you won the championship, you've become the world number one.

You if you don't believe that yourself and inside your head it has not happened, it's not going to happen outside.

So that's why I believe in self believe a lot.

Yeah that's true.

I have to believe that you will be the best chance.

True.

Okay, tell me about your day to day life as a teenager.

12 year or 13 year old, 14 year old when you were grandmaster already and you had these ambitions and now it's a.

In the family everybody's accepted society, everybody's accepted now this is his path. Forget everything else.

He's going to compete this on a world level and going to win.

Okay, what was your routine like from morning to night.

As a teager what would you do?

I never did things that teenagers do.

Okay, what did you do?

There are days when I train with my trainer and there are days where I train myself.

Okay.

And if I'm training with my trainer it's uh.

He livesate 45 minutes apart from my home.

So I get up, I get ready, go to his place and by what time?

By 10, 10:30 you're there.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then we start training till 56 and then I come back then already it's, it's done for the day.

Okay.

And I try to take some rest.

Okay.

So now let's talk about your training.

So from 10am Till 6pm what would you train on?

Give me an. A normal day.

What do you work on?

Is it.

I'm sure it's not just playing games against each other, right?

Yeah.

So we.

So my trainer has a lot of different types of positions which he can show me and I can have to come up with the best decision in those positions.

And when you train, train different types of position you get to, I mean you get understanding of different types of position.

You train to think in a certain way in certain types of positions and all these things develop and you take five to six hours every day to train.

It's a mentally challenging game.

Like you just at it. You're constantly just thinking about 20 things and then when you're off game, you're still thinking about it.

Do you think chess players, they are more mentally stable or they're mentally tortured?

Simply asking if you are crazy or not.

Because you.

When I saw.

Okay, my reference point is.

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge because I don't.

I've never gotten an opportunity to go inside deep brain of.

Inside the brain of somebody who, who the chess player at that level.

Okay.

So my reference point is Queen's Gambit and she goes crazy.

She mentally tortures herself to become this one player because 247 she's just thinking this one thing and she's.

Even when she wants to get distracted with lot of substances and people and things, she's still in that hallucinated mind space.

Also she's thinking about chess.

So it's a mental torture.

At least that's what they show.

Yeah, you can see it as.

I mean one of the ways to see it.

But yeah, when you like the game so much, it's.

It's always there.

And I, I mean we all have, we have all chess.

Chess in our mind throughout the day.

I don't think there is a single day where I didn't think about chess.

It's always there.

I'm sure I opened my phone every day just to look at some games that's going.

Going live somewhere.

Even if it's not the strongest tournament.

I'm sure all the top players do this and because we just, yeah, we just like chess and we want to keep.

Keep doing it.

And I think just players are also absent minded in some sense because we do keep thinking about chess and we forget where we are and what we are doing and all these things.

So yeah, there are some good things about chess if you're so, so crazy about it and some, some things you have to give up and you feel you constantly pressure yourself to not think about anything and just think about chess.

Do you do that?

No, it's just automatically.

It's automatically you're just in that zone 24 7.

Yeah, it's not like I have to bring up chess.

It's just there like I'm sure something similar to you when you're, I don't know, looking around, you're thinking about what should I do next?

And yeah, like what should I talk about.

So all these things it's similar for a chess player.

Like we are.

If you are.

If you're sitting there, we think about.

For me especially like I'm.

I'll think about.

Okay, I'm going to play this next tournament.

Um, how should I prepare?

Um, which, which lines to play and all these kind of things like what routine to have.

All these things will be there in my mind and I mean I think this is how.

I don't know.

Maybe we'll see. Maybe in the future it won't be like this.

You'll be able to switch it on and switch it off.

Yeah.

Today or not today.

I'm not.

Unfortunately.

There's no switch.

It's just fully going on.

Okay.

Have you seen Queen's Gambit?

No.

You know about that, right?

Yeah, I know.

Okay, so there's a scene in the movie where she falls in love with the game.

She gets obsessed and she's sleeping on her bed and on the top.

Okay.

On the wall she can see the chest like all those moves happening.

She can see the pawn going here or a knight going here.

And she's just playing.

Even in her resting state she could see that boardat she sees boardred when she's walking around in a shadow.

Like it's just imaginary board in front of her where she's.

All she's trying to do is play moves and play win the game.

Does it happen with you?

Yes, we have.

I think all the chess players have.

Have a board in their mind and if you say the notation right now, I can just quickly imagine it.

It's.

It's not a.

It just comes from the practice.

Like we have worked on.

Right.

And it does happen that we sometimes just.

Just make a move on on our imaginary board and start playing.

So you do that?

Yeah, imaginary board.

What's the most geekiest thing like this you have done?

Like do you play on your.

On the wall or right above your head while you're sleeping or do you do something else?

It doesn't necessarily have to be that.

I have to look at.

Look up to play.

I mean I can speak to you and I have still think.

Okay, it's not.

I mean does happen that someone shows me a position to solve and I look at that position and then I'm doing something else.

And suddenly I realize I have found the solution because I've been thinking all along.

So I'm sure all the top playersers do all these kind of things.

It's just.

Yeah.

Just is always there with us.

24 by but do you have friends?

Only chess friends.

See, that's what.

Because I was wondering.

You must be surrounded with just coaches, competitors, chess friends.

And your ecosystem would be justice.

You don't have friends for anything else.

Yeah, I think that's sacrifice we have to.

We have to make.

Do you see this as a sacrifice?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean I would for sure love to have some friends apart from chess, but it's.

I mean when you play so much, when you know, when you're trying to do something, something different then yeah, you have to sacrifice.

Do you ever feel that you would want to have a personal life?

Maybe have a good relationship?

Maybe have.

Yeah, for sure.

But right now my focus is on this and I feel this is the right time, you know, for me.

Like I feel like I'm on.

Good.

I'm in a good shape.

Good, good mental shape and also feeling like my game is improving.

So I feel this is the right time to focus.

Focus on chess and.

Okay, all right.

Nothing else.

You don't miss it?

I think there's always time in life and I feel this is the time for chess.

So I just do it.

Now that you talk only chess, chess, chess.

Okay, so let me ask you something about.

Is there money in chess?

Yes.

Earlier it used to be that only top players would make money from playing and there.

And then coaches or trainer would make from trading y.

Yeah.

But now because of all the streaming thing has boomed.

There are so many ways to.

For example, Sagar is the chess journalist, covers all the tournaments and that's one way of doing it.

And there are obviously there is still training and that's said and also playing there is I think more money than it used to be because we have more and more opportunities, more tournaments coming up.

This year we had esports World cup for Chess and which is a new avenue.

So there are more such ways.

And also top players do get like corporate support.

I'm currently being supported by any group.

And those kind of support you also get.

Okay, I have last two questions for you which are little actually before I asked the last two questions.

You played a game with Modi.

That was only for the photo.

You played the game?

Uh, no, we didn't.

We didn't have time to play the whole game.

We just uh.

Mainly we were talking and what were you talking to?

Just about like getting to.

I mean he was asking a lot of questions and getting.

Getting to know about me and my family and my sister and everyone.

So I didn't feel like I was talking to someone such a high position.

Felt like I was talking to.

Talking to someone that I knew.

And it's like I was.

I'm conversing with you right now.

And yeah, I.

And not just me, my parents also felt the same way.

And it was not conversing just to me, but also with my parents asking about their.

Their life, my.

My dad's job and everything.

So, yeah, it was a.

It was a nice conversation.

You did.

What stood out for you?

I think this fact that even though he was in such a high position, he could make people comfortable speaking.

Speaking.

And I think that's something that I'm still trying to learn because there are fans who come and come up and speak, and I'm not the.

Not the one who makes them comfortable.

What do you do?

No, sometimes I'm just.

I'm just awkward.

And that makes them awkward.

Whole situation awkward's like somebody comes like, hey, can I have a picture?

Or can I talk to her?

And then you were like, no.

No.

I never say no, but then I say yes, and I take a picture.

But sometimes I'm just not.

Not there.

I'm thinking about something else or something.

And here was the last question I wanted to ask you this, that if your future self could write a letter to you today.

Okay.

What would it ask you to stop or start immediately.

I think I should get physically stronger, which I'm working on.

I think I should just continue doing that.

I think that's something my future self would want me to do that.

So start getting hard at physical.

Getting in a better shape.

Yes.

Incredible.

Very quickly, you have to tell me about this board.

I'I'M a beginner.

Okay.

And I have no idea about, let's say, how to play chess.

I mean, I just know what.

Which object is supposed to do what.

That's it.

So if I'm a complete beginner and if there are people like me who are watching this, what's one trick you can teach us which will help us beat some people?

Yeah.

First of all, this board looks really cool.

That was the first thing that caught my eye when I entered.

And yeah, the first thing to know in chess is that you have to control the centers.

Okay.

Because when you control the center, you can play on both sides.

So starting moves either starting with the E4.

This is called E4 because to the notation, it's.

So if I play this.

Yeah, okay.

And last best move supposed to be here to try to control the center.

And if, let's say, play something Else.

Yeah, white tries to control the center and gets the piece out.

Tries to develop and then, and then tries to like play in the center because that's, that's how you have to do.

So everything. What I have to do is just try to control this part.

Yes.

Mainly the center and so that you can play on both sides.

And usually it's said that it's better to bring the knights first and then the bishop.

Okay.

And there's like.

Let's say a normal opening could be getting the knight out.

You're attacking this pawn right now.

So let's say I defend this and you get the bishop out and then you do short castle so that your king is safe.

And then you can start playing on the king on the center.

Okay.

And.

So I do this here and then, and then yeah, you can break in the center.

You can bring your knights out.

Okay, let's try this random thing.

Okay, let's.

In how many seconds can you beat me?

That's the game.

Let's try to do this.

Yeah, I can.

It depends.

Okay.

I don't even know how to play this, so I'm gonna try.

So you're giving me a check right now.

I don't know.

With something.

Yeah, that's possible but it's.

It's not great.

Because you'll beat this.

Yeah, yeah.

And then this is my queen.

Queen is the strongest piece.

So you and right now attacking your bishop.

So you have to save this.

Save.

But no matter where I go, if I like go back, you're still in an attacking mode.

Yeah, I can am'attacking this guy also. So I can take this for free for nothing.

Yes, something.

Yeah, that's a good move because you're attacking.

Attacking my.

Well, and then if I do this, you do that.

So okay, what do I do here?

What should I, what should be the obvious move.

Yeah, the thing is you have to try to bring your pieces out.

Okay.

But then here is a.

Yeah, here I'm controlling with Ione but almost everywhere I'm getting.

Yeah.

One of the ways is to trade.

Trade my pawn.

Like accept that you're down a pawn and try to get your pieces out.

Yeah, that's a good move.

Okay, you're trying to get your knight out.

If I take and there's a thing in interest, like sometimes you sacrifice a point just to get piece piece activity and development.

Okay, take me another piece out.

Right.

So let me try to do this.

Yes, sure.

Yeah, taking with the queen would have been better because you're bringing more pieces out.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I'll try to do this next.

Go ahead, let's.

So the idea is take more pieces out.

Yeah.

Usually you don't bring the queen out too early, but this is a.

That would have been a better move because now what do I do?

Try play this.

That gives up a pawn and then what?

This is a queen, right?

Yes, if I try to.

Yeah, that's a good move.

So there is this special move called castling.

Okay, what is casting?

So.

Oh, sorry.

When the king is king, this is the starting position of the king and rook.

And there is this special move which is called castle ink.

And you can do on both sides.

Okay.

Which is basically that I shift.

Yeah, you shift.

And you get this to the.

If I've not touched any of them, then only I can do this.

You cannot.

If you have already moved your pieces one of the either king or rook, then you can't castle.

Or if the squares or if these squares are controlled.

Okay, let's say my bishop was here and it's controlling this square, then you can castel.

But right now I can.

Yeah, you can.

So if I do this.

So that's a move.

It's.

It's move I've done.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a legal move.

So your turn now.

Okay, let's finish this.

Beat me and let's.

What do you do?

It's a check.

Yeah, Bishop is.

And then rook is stronger than the bishop.

So it's a good.

Good trade off for you.

Yeah, right.

My have my night.

So I can.

Oh wait.

So okay, now you can take it back.

Okay, let's try to finish this.

Whatever the.

Wherever we go, we go.

Check again.

Your queen is there so you can.

Yeah, this is first and it's mate.

And.

Yeah.

Do you like the board?

Yeah, it's cool.

And for me also, it's not easy to understand which pieces actually.

All right, thank you so much.

It was pleasure talking to you.

You're a chess nerd geek child prodigy.

Explains why you were GM at the age of 12.

And I am rooting for you along with every other Indian who's watching this and every other player who's watching this, that you go out and become world number one soon.

And I hope that we will do this conversation again sometime and go a little deeper in your head again.

Yeah.

Thank you.

It was a pleasure talking to you.

This is my first podcast, so I really enjoyed it.

And as I was saying.

Yeah, you'also someone that makes people comfortable talking.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

I had a great time.

Thank you.

Hi.

How are you?

Good.

Have seat.

Where are you traveling fromai right now?

You just.

When did you come here?

Bombay today morning.

I just reached.

Oh, you just landed and you're here.

Did you go get time to freshen up, change, eat breakfast?

Anything at all?

I had breakfast, so.

Okay.

You're good, right?

Yeah.

Am do you want anything?

I'm fine.

Thank you.

You sure?

Tea, coffee, food, juice, Anything you wantek you you sure?

Yeah.

Have you done this before?

I think this is my first podcast.

Do you watch Vodcast?

Yeah, yeah, I listen to your.

Oh, you've listened to mine.

A street hawkker sold me this in Indonesia 10 years ago and since then it was kept.

I was waiting it to play with the world champion.

Thank you so much.

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A conversation can change someone's life.

I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.